[FP] Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P. Gabriel vs The Weeknd)

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[FP] Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P. Gabriel vs The Weeknd)

Post Fri Nov 23, 2018 1:28 pm

Image
sources:
Peter Gabriel - Sledgehammer (acapella) D# mixolydian and D# minor (flute)
The Weeknd - Feel It Coming (instrumental) D# major

Thanks all for your tips and source/support/recommend. I gave an 'extensive' reaction and explanation below also in some of the posts, hoping that other readers can get ideas or inspiration from that.
**EDIT regarding version 8
Thanks Satis5d for your comments.
I remade the track with the orginal Weeknd-mental that I got from Rayman (thanks!) instead of the karaoke version I was using (and Satis5d heard that...).
Also found a new, cleaned-DIY-pella of Sledgehammer (called 'a capela' by Jo Ph on Youtube). It is a L+R-track, but to me it sounds mono as in the other stems, so I put the multitap-delay on it, with two taps 20 ms apart spread over 40% L+R (100% is too much compared to this mental), also to compensate for the narrowing by pitchcorrector Gsnap. Stereocontrol is on there as well, but only works on 'stereo' tracks.
Because I had a new vocal track, I had to apply the delay again, but I used it in fewer spots and on shorter parts than before.
The orginal mental fades out earlier than the karaoke, so I lowered the vocal volume there a lot.
version 8

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download-version-8

================
all old remarks on old versions below

SMASH and Warezio got me thinking, as always, but this time of 'less is more' (more or less :1cheesy: ) and I cut down on the delays in version 5 in a number of ways:
= In the 'Sony Simple Delay' you can only switch feedback on and off (see the name...), but I was able to lower the 'dry out' and 'delay out' values, this makes the repeat less loud and so less of an input for the feedback.
= I took Warezio's tip on 'echo on just the last word' that I had used on the outro, and now moved (to the right) almost all starting points in my automation envelope. So the echoed parts are shorter than in version 5.
= Also cut back on some of Peter's lines (the 'flying' because of the pitch, 'through' because 'i am coming' sounds better :1rolleyes: ). This way 'you can chauffeur me', starts to sound like 'show for me, for me, for me' and 'you gonna feel it' gets more double meaning.
I put the Gsnap plugin again at the front of the effects chain, switched of the 'subtle' preset and did MashGyver and Satis5d spots by hand.
version 7

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Thanks Satis5d for your point-pitch-tips, I used them this way in version 5+7:
One semitone up:
= HA-bit (just after @3:09),
= NEW stuff (just after @3:19)
One semitone down:
= SHOW for you (just after @3:34) (because it sounds 'strange' after pitchsnap + two delays),
version 5 (no-HAAS, spot pitch corrected after Satis5d)

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Mashgyver thanks for your new review on version 2.
In version 3, I ditched the multi delay on the flute and simply doubled the track, panned both tracks left and right 50%, with a very small time difference. The flute should be more in the centre now.
For the vocal, I changed the L-1 ms and R-25 ms setting in the preset, to L-10 and R-1. For the flute, I lowered the volume of the copy on the left channel.
I tried to correct the 'fly-ing' (first syllable) but could not get it to work, so I cut out the whole word and let the delay fill the gap (and Gabriel still compares his partner with an aeroplane!) in version 3.

In version 4 I used the same delay as in version 3 but with a smaller time difference, to make the unwanted HAAS-effect (= delayed side sounds softer than original) less obvious and Peter's voice more in the middle.
version 4 with L-10 milisecond and R-1 milisecond

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version 3

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In version 2+3 I transposed the flute to C minor (relative minor of D# major); below you will find as an alternative just intro with flute in original D# minor, but changed by G-Snap-plugin to D# major.

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to compare, version 2 below:

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version 1 below

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Last edited by CVS on Mon Dec 10, 2018 11:54 am, edited 9 times in total.

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Re: CVS - Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P.Gabriel + The Week

Post Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:49 pm

I'm very close to recommending this. However ... the acapella is really narrow, which takes some getting used to in the headphones. The instrumental has a lot of wide energy so it sort of works, but I suspect putting a little width on the acapella would be more satisfying.

Something else that wouldn't stop me from recommending: some of the acapella yells are a bit high energy for the instrumental, you might like it better without them (e.g., at the end use just the trailing word after the yeah-yeahs with a long stereo delay to stretch it out). In general smoothing the attack of the acapella would help things come together; you can do this with a transient shaping plugin (or if you don't have one you can play around with pre-delay). In SH the vocals are engineered to be "in your face" but this track wants the vocals to hang out at arms length.

The full stop at 3:03 was surprising, but I got used to it.

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Re: CVS - Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P.Gabriel + The Week

Post Sat Nov 24, 2018 1:30 am

Hey CVS! I think this has the potential to be a really beautiful mashup, but it’s not there yet because of some major but not insurmountable harmony issues:

Most of Sledgehammer uses the E♭ Mixolydian scale, which is somewhat close to E♭ major. The major difference is the presence of the D♭ notes throughout. If you were to bring every D♭ down a semitone to C you should have a much prettier sounding harmony throughout…and I don’t think it would totally wreck this melody. (I could be wrong though!) One thing you won’t be able to do is simply adjust the overall key up or down a few semitones--the modal scales are an entirely different animal.

Additionally, starting at the line “shed my skin” around 3:14, Pete’s mostly in E♭ minor, where you’ll probably want to bring some G♭s up to G in addition to the D♭s.

The shakuhachi flute bits are nicely placed, but they’ re all in E♭ minor, so your best bet might be to try and bring them down 3 semitones to C minor and hoping they don’t sound too garbled, and hopefully they harmonize with the chords on which they land...

Mix feedback:
I also remember from experience that those Sledgehammer stems are all in mono, which is what Warezio is hearing. So you’ll want to add some width to them. I know you use a lot of plug-ins, so I would imagine you have something like bx_stereomaker that can do this fairly easily. If not, wide reverb and delays can go a long way.

All in all, I like the idea and I think it has potential. Good luck!

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Re: CVS - Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P.Gabriel + The Week

Post Sun Nov 25, 2018 6:17 am

Thanks Warezio and Mashgyver for your suggestions. See below what I learned from them.
As Mashgyver suggested, the vocal was in mono; I used an Acid Pro Plugin (Sony Multi Tap Delay - 'pseudo echo' preset) to fix that.

I don't have the stems but a DIrtY acapella (Youtube?) with vocals, flute and a lot of instruments (mike leakage?) on it. That forced me to cut out the vocals very sharp. On Warezio's 'vocal in your face' tip I lowered volume of all 'second repeats' in the delay, and lowered the entire vocal track about 1,0 dB.

Also I made fade-ins on all starts and fade-outs on all ends of those vocal parts. Doing that I was able to cut out some instruments; they messed up my analysis of the vocal notes with free VST-plugin G-Tune, so they had to go.

In the outro, on Warezio's tip, I cut out some original parts and filled that with delay, also gradually lowered the volume of the vocal parts one by one. It is not the original ending, but it is more of a fade out now. When the mashup ends, the vocal is about 'elbows length' now, not so much 'in your face'.

Thanks MashGyver for explaining the keyfixing to D major of the instrumental:
2 2 1 2 2 2 1 --> semitones of major scale
D# E#(=F) G G# A# B#(=C) D D# --> between brackets the 'normal' name

The Mixo-C# is not in the D# Major of the mental and so should be 1 semi lower. The F#s (from D# minor part after 3:14 in version 1) are not in D# major, so had to be upped 1 semi to G. No pun intended, but I had this free VST G-Snap, that even had the mixolydian scale (or mode ?) in its list of scales. Autotune EVO does not have it... (I did not need it of course, I needed a D# major).

Mr. Gabriel makes things complicated, by playing his intro flute in D# minor, then singing in D# mixolydian, then switching to D# minor. So I just told G-snap to fix the track to D# major, hoping that it would take care of the C# and F# problems and nothing else. G-snap did a good job, but it narrows the stereo. I have experienced that with Autotune EVO as well. So I put G-snap in front of the multi tap delay (for stereo), and put the simple delay (for the repeats) before the multi. Put the reverb (an old idea by Sgt Mash) at the very end.

Warezio's tip on delay on just the 'trailing word' prompted me to recheck all delays. They were made with Acid Pro Sony Simple Delay and switched on and off with an automation envelope (on/off) on the track. I had them starting and ending on the beatgrid with 'points', but I changed that in version 2, to make the repeats fit better textually. For one of the really 'wonky' corrections made by G-Snap @0:57, I used this to get rid of the offending note altogether.

I tried to fix the shakuhachi (sukiyaki ?) flute to D# major with Gtune as well (as short sample is provided to compare), but in the mashup chose for MashGyvers suggestion of transposing the flute 3 semitones down to C minor (the relative minor of the D# major of the mental).

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Re: CVS - Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P.Gabriel + The Week

Post Mon Nov 26, 2018 2:18 am

V2 is much better in all ways mentioned. The vocals and flute do sound off-center, and panned to the left now…it’s a little odd that way…check the controls on your plug-in, I guess? :1huh:

The harmony sounds great! To me it now sounds close enough to the original, even with the changed notes, that I doubt most people will notice the melody was modified so much. The only note that I noticed didn’t “snap” quite the same was “fly...” from “flying” around 0:33 that somehow snapped up to a D natural. It doesn’t sound bad--it’s just inconsistent with the rest of the track and maybe sounds more obviously doctored than the rest of the melody. I think manually pulling that one down to a C would sound best…

Otherwise, everything else sounds pretty darn good!

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Re: CVS - Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P.Gabriel + The Week

Post Mon Nov 26, 2018 6:27 am

Thanks MashGyver for your new review, new version 3 with comments is up.
I cut out the 'flying', delayed 'aeroplane', L+R-doubled the flute, changed 'stereofication' :1smiley: -preset.

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Re: CVS - Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P.Gabriel + The Week

Post Mon Nov 26, 2018 7:02 pm

Now! Thats what i call a mashup :1cool:
V3 is golden CVS, i really enjoyed this one.
So much so, i downloaded it to be used in one of my sets.. thanks!

Very well done :1smiley:

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Re: CVS - Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P.Gabriel + The Week

Post Tue Nov 27, 2018 12:29 am

Thanks DJ (! :1shocked: ) Legato for your kind compliment and joke avout that famous hits compilation serie.
'Just what I needed' (the Cars) today.
All done with a 'little' help from my friends. (The Beatles/Joe Cocker). Thanks, again.

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Re: CVS - Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P.Gabriel + The Week

Post Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:04 am

@MashGyver, your sharp ears discovered an unwanted HAAS-effect on the vocals.
If the R-signal is between 8 and 30 miliseconds delayed from the L-signal, the R-sounds arrive later in your ear, your mind thinks logically that this is because the R-sound is further away, so the (same) L-sound is closer, and therefore 'sounds' louder, even when L+R signals are equally loud.
I tried 10 miliseconds in version 4 and Peter's voice is more in the middle.

I also tried using 4 slots of the available total 8 in the Sony Multi Tap Delay. And put slot 3 and 4 on 50% L+R pan and a lower volume (on second thought, the further away, the lower the volume should be to increase the HAAS-effect), with delay times of 1,2,3,4 miliseconds. You can really make a voice (or any sound) 'big' /double/triple with a delay. Good trick to stereoize ...

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Re: CVS - Feel The Sledgehammer Coming (P.Gabriel + The Week

Post Fri Nov 30, 2018 10:05 pm

Great mix, CVS! :1cool:

There's a sour note at 3:09 (and a couple more like it) on "I kicked the HA-bit" and "This is the NEW song." Sounds like 1 semitone flat (low) to me.
self-proclaimed Mashstix judge of artistic expression / satis5d at sowndhaus.audio

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