CVS-If You Don't Know Y You Love Me (Brownstone + N.Jones)

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CVS-If You Don't Know Y You Love Me (Brownstone + N.Jones)

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:36 am

NOTA BENE
Thanks b-romeo and Warezio for your tips on keyfinding. I have edited the original post after your comments to make things clearer (also for others interested in keyfinding).
I appreciate the remarks on how to keyfind and will definitely use them in the future.
On the other hand, I found this combo (by luck, or by ear...) already and would like to hear if this one mashup is alright (and FP-worthy). :1rolleyes:
Image
sources:
Brownstone - If You Love Me -> A major (or its relative F# minor= same notes in different order and use, this based on inwhatkey.com and Virtual DJ and Celemony Melodyne)
Norah Jones - Don't Know Why -> A# major (or it's relative G minor, see above, this based on songkeyfinder.com and audiokeychain.com and musicnotes.com).

extended information
Because of the discussions on Mashstix on quality of used sources I auditioned my new instrumentals this week only with my small directory of WAV acapellas. Playing one in Mediaplayer and the other in VLC player ('I am a wild and crazy guy' - Steve Martin) I found a combo of two songs that I love (IYLM for its lyrics and DKW for the music).
They sounded good together, so I tried them both in Virtual DJ to get their beats right, because of the BPM-difference. This showed F#minor for Brownstone (but Virtual DJ has a tendency to show the relative minor instead of the major, at least on acapella only tracks). Norah = A# major.
I checked both keys on various websites. The Tunebat website that B-romeo mentions, uses an old encryption or security certificate, and therefore my Chrome browser refuses to show it. So I switched to inwhatkey.com that gave me:
Brownstone - If You Love Me -> A major (or its relative F# minor= same notes in different order and use)
Norah Jones - Don't Know Why -> A# major (or it's relative G minor).
For this mashup I used a karaoke version that sounds to me like original (in key) and as the karaoke site mentioned that karaoke was in same key as orginal Don't Know Why.
So I changed mental key by dropping whole track 1 semitone in Acid Pro 7 to (key) A major. I always do it this way.

The vocal is probably from a 12 inch; I corrected the vocal tempo by moving words 'forward'. In Acid Pro when I move for instance beat 31 to the front of the track (for 10 to 100 milliseconds), then beat 32 and on also move to the front. When I then fix beat 35, this means that beat 36 and on have had TWO timecorrections. It is strange that a vinyl rip slows down near the end. Because 12 inch vinyl plays at 33 or 45. Maybe the person ripping the vinyl deliberately gradually slowed down the record and then put it on Youtube giving me a pella that has a lower key at the end compared to the start ?
Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91NExZP5dZI
I cut Brownstone in three parts and used the first part of part 3 (from 3:00-3:37 in original acapella) over the intro of Norah, but very soft, and threw away part 2 (from 2:39 - 3:00).
I know the music of most songs starts and ends on the topic note of the used key. As the vocals usually start later, maybe this is not the case for the vocals? Anyroad, I messed with that by making a new vocal overlay intro and a new ending with echo chamber delay, and that way maybe I put listeners who don't know the original songs on the wrong foot.
I am not totally tonedeaf; as I love music and can recognize different songs :1grin: , sometimes even on a very short snippet. Usually I get the "sing one semitone up to energize" change at the end of a song. I saw the video that Warezio mentions before (I LOVE loquacious) BUT I still can't do it well enough.
The Dorian reference I now understand (thanks Warezio), but that also means that a minor key is also 'just' a major key, but starting on the sixth note. This requires some extra study.
I assume that a song that is offered for Karaoke, so for non-experienced singers and that has been a worldwide hit like Don't Know Why is not too hard mixolodianaciousnesswise, so the A# major is probably right.
The ladies from Brownstone really CAN sing. For me it is impressive and I like the key they all sing in, but here I assume it is just one key.
I also think the MashGyver has to listen in (but thanks already SMASH).

original text
I think it fits together, tell me what you think. Also put my Happy Cat Disco ears on and improved the phrasing, cut down the vocal overlay intro, this made the mashup about 10 seconds shorter. And put show IT, prove IT, do IT on the right beat, and improved the sound of the vocal.

fixed version 2 after SMASH

No Flash Installed


download-updated
=================================
to compare below the OLD version, before SMASH

No Flash Installed

Last edited by CVS on Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:19 am, edited 7 times in total.

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Re: CVS-If You Don't Know Y You Love Me (Brownstone + N.Jone

Post Tue Oct 09, 2018 4:51 pm

I hear what you're trying to do here, CVS, and it is quite beautiful. But as you noticed already the keys are all over the place. I'd love to know what MashGyver has to say about this. :1shocked:
self-proclaimed Mashstix judge of artistic expression / satis5d at sowndhaus.audio

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Re: CVS-If You Don't Know Y You Love Me (Brownstone + N.Jone

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:16 am

I'm not able to hear what keys songs are in, so I cheat by using a website.
https://tunebat.com/ is normally pretty solid, just make sure you are looking up the correct song as karaoke and live versions are listed also!

I did however check up your sources, but it came up with multiple possibilites :-\ anyhow, its a nice tool I figured I'd share :1smiley:

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Re: CVS-If You Don't Know Y You Love Me (Brownstone + N.Jone

Post Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:51 pm

b_romeo wrote:I'm not able to hear what keys songs are in, so I cheat by using a website.
https://tunebat.com/ is normally pretty solid, just make sure you are looking up the correct song as karaoke and live versions are listed also!

This used to be a pain point for me, but this video helped me out (warning: it is loquacious).
  • Find the tonic. This is a note that you can just play over and over and it always sounds good.
    • Sometimes you can get fooled by the 5th here.
  • Start playing a scale based on the tonic (e.g., with freepiano).. If the minor third sounds good that suggests a minor flavor; if the major third sounds good that suggests a major flavor.
    • There are several major modes and several minor modes, but mostly "major" (Ionian) and "minor" (Aeolian) are used.
    • It's still really hard for me to tell the difference between rarely used modes (e.g., Mixolydian) and their common equivalent.
  • Last step: check hooktheory, tunebat, or key-finding software to see if they agree.
    • hooktheory has poor coverage but knows about rarer modes. Everybody else tries to shoehorn things into "major" or "minor".
    • If the original published key or the automatically identified key does not correspond to the tonic, that sometimes points to a fancy mode being used. Example: tunebat lists the key for purple haze as D major, but the tonic is clearly E ... solution to this puzzle is that purple haze is E-dorian (dorian starts one note up on the scale).

If you hear a key change you have to do the above procedure for each section. If the songwriter is really fancy then essentially key changes are happening all the time ("borrowing") and it can be hard to even find the tonic (e.g., the chorus to Toxic).

If all else fails, ask MashGyver.

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Re: CVS-If You Don't Know Y You Love Me (Brownstone + N.Jone

Post Thu Oct 11, 2018 3:11 am

thanks B-romeo and Warezio, I have extended the original post AFTER your remarks.
Also improved the phrasing in the mashup (version 2 is now up), it now fits better, and is a bit shorter. I hope it also fixes some key issues, that's to say if there ARE any keyissues.
To get room for the earlier vocal in the front, I had to shorten the vocal overlay intro I had created with the vocal outro. (if that makes any sense :1shocked: )

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Re: CVS-If You Don't Know Y You Love Me (Brownstone + N.Jone

Post Fri Oct 12, 2018 4:34 am

Interesting combo, I'm not familiar with the sources, and you almost convince me that you have here an original song :1smiley:

I didn't hear the previous version, but it sounds like you solved the main key issues you had.
On the other hand, as a side effect for the key transformations and BPM changes, I think you've lost a bit from the acapella quality, but maybe it's only me :1undecided:

I'm curious to hear the others on your latest version...

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Re: CVS-If You Don't Know Y You Love Me (Brownstone + N.Jone

Post Sat Oct 13, 2018 3:22 am

thanks SMASH for noticing the pella quality and checking the key, I reloaded the track and changed volume(s) and re-rendered and put up a new version (old one to compare is also there).

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